Rachel Stockman (00:05):
And good afternoon everybody. I'm Rachel Stockman and I will be your host for the rest of the afternoon. We have a new trial that just started up about an hour or so today, the state of Michigan versus Kaia Hassell. She's accused of plotting with her lover to murder her husband, US Army Sergeant Tyrone Hassell ii. He was cut down just outside of his family's home on year's Eve 2018. Police say the murder that Kamaya and Jeremy planned the murder to get her husband out of the way and collect $400,000 of army pension. We're inside live in that courtroom. Not a whole lot happening. We're going to monitor that very closely. We're not actually able to see our feet is not showing us the video they're playing. So in the meantime, while we monitor that live, we're going to take you to the prosecution's openings that we just heard a short time ago. Take a listen to some of the prosecution's opening cases in the case against Kamaya Hasell. I want to bring on my panel Katherine Smith, Norman Williams. So great to be on set with you two. Okay, let's talk about this case. The prosecution seems to have a very strong case. They have a confession, but we heard the defense's openings and Katherine, it seems like they're trying to contend that this was a coerced confession of sorts.

Katherine Smith (01:30):
That's right. They're showing by, I guess they intend to prove that by showing number one, she first gave statements several times before the confession stating that she didn't do anything. She was transported around to different precincts. And also there was one other factor that they listed and that they lied to her, that they lied to her, that she had already been sold out by her lover. So I think that's what they're going to try to show.

Rachel Stockman (01:55):
But is that going to be successful, Norman? Because as we know from watching a lot of CSI and law and Order, police and investigators can lie. That's

Norman Williams (02:06):
Right.

Rachel Stockman (02:07):
When they're interviewing someone, that doesn't mean the confession is not necessarily good, right?

Norman Williams (02:13):
No, that's true. What's confusing me about the confession, the alleged confession, is that snippets of it were being played by the prosecutor during his opening, and I'm wondering if they already litigated or in Michigan it's called a walker hearing in New York it's called a Huntley Hearing. I wonder if they've litigated the issues around the alleged confession or not. And if they did not, why is the jury hearing it at all? Because there could be problems.

Rachel Stockman (02:40):
Well, I assume if the jury's hearing it that the judge, if it became an issue, the judge ruled that it was admissible. But the question is, these issues that the defense are raising is raising Katherine, do you think it will be enough given what we've heard so far of the confession tape? It's pretty direct what she says.

Katherine Smith (03:01):
I don't think it's going to be enough. I think it's enough for the defense to have a cognizable defense. I think that they can argue it and it's not a laughable defense, but I don't think it's going to play.

Rachel Stockman (03:10):
Alright. Stand by you two, if you don't mind. My legal experts will stand by in the meantime, looks like we're back live in court in this case out of Michigan, and officers on the stand. Let's listen in. Right. We're inside that Michigan case. It looks like a canine officer on the stand talking about finding the victim's body. Bringing in my legal panel really quickly, Katherine, he just seems to be a witness setting up what happened in terms of importance.

Katherine Smith (03:35):
Correct. Setting up how he found the body that the victim was already deceased, and also how he intended to track the person who did this.

Rachel Stockman (03:44):
Norman witnesses like this. It looks like, look, he's already being taken off the stand. You try to keep pretty quick to the point. Right. You don't want to have them on too long. They can't add a whole lot other than just setting up the scene.

Norman Williams (03:55):
Right, exactly. And setting up the scene doesn't necessarily hurt the defendant, which is why you didn't see any lengthy cross examination from the defense.

Rachel Stockman (04:03):
Absolutely. Okay. It looks like we're getting, I'm peering over on the corner of my screen. It looks like we're getting a new witness on the stand, but it could take a couple minutes. So it's a perfect time to get in a quick break. We'll be back on the other side and we'll take you back live inside that Michigan case when we return. Alright. We were just listening to some of the opening statements from the defense. Katherine, when you were listening to it, you were kind of thinking it was a bit odd. He was on a justice mission, but this wasn't a case where it's really a justice case.

Katherine Smith (04:30):
Is that what raised eyebrows for you? Yeah. It didn't call for this sense of, this is genuine outrage. We need to watch out for this. This isn't

Rachel Stockman (04:38):
Some innocent victim that had nothing to do with the case. I

Katherine Smith (04:43):
Always tend to balk when I see someone push out with the public policy argument right away, it means that the facts are mean.

Rachel Stockman (04:49):
Or when they quote Norman the Constitution,

Norman Williams (04:51):
He can

Rachel Stockman (04:51):
Do it in this case. But I've seen defense attorneys do that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. What effect do you think that has on yours?

Norman Williams (04:58):
Well, according the Constitution.

Rachel Stockman (05:00):
Yeah. Well, just being kind of broad stroke about your opening as opposed to drilling down on the facts.

Norman Williams (05:06):
Well, back to judging what you think a jury is thinking. Like reading tea leaves, some jurors are going to be offended, some are going to think that you're on the side of righteousness and it's just hard to tell in an opening before any evidence is presented, it's hard to tell what your words are going to do. That's true.

Rachel Stockman (05:26):
You never know. Every juror, every jury is different. We found that out, always being surprised on what some of these verdicts and what some of the questions jurors can ask during the course of deliberations. Alright, so we just started this trial though, so let's listen in to more of the defense, his openings, because I'll tell you, everyone here at long crime thought this was a slam dunk for the prosecution. Why would this woman, this officer in the army, even take this to trial? Well, let's listen to what her defense had to say. When you can see the defendant right there, Kamaya, Hassell tearing up, wiping her eyes as she's listening to her defense attorney give his opening statement during this case out of Michigan. It's a very interesting case. And one thing that Norman or Katherine either of you could answer that I don't quite understand is these people seem to be pretty smart. Why would they think, okay, why would they think it would put them better off that Kamai would be better off by admitting her involvement in a murder? Because the defense attorney's trying to claim that she just wanted to be with him and that the detective made these false promises that he'd sign off with her. Explain the rationale. I don't quite get it. Norman, hard question to you.

Norman Williams (06:48):
I mean, it is almost like he's trying to make the argument that this confession was falsely obtained. Right. But unfortunately, for those that are accused, the cops are allowed to lie to you. And if they weren't allowed to lie, there'd be nobody ever caught.

Rachel Stockman (07:04):
Exactly. But let's talk about if we could, we have a couple minutes before we have to go to break. Katherine, let's talk about the actual facts of the case. What is her involvement in, she did not pull the trigger killing her husband, but apparently she used Snapchat to plot this. Or at least that's what prosecutors are alleging. At

Katherine Smith (07:23):
Least that's what

(07:23):
She

(07:24):
Said. Right? Because the Snapchats, I don't think we have the Snapchats is my understanding

Rachel Stockman (07:29):
That they disappear.

Katherine Smith (07:29):
Exactly.

(07:30):
Which is

(07:30):
The whole reason that they use Snapchat. And taking back to Rachel, to your point, why there would be any motive for her to say this. I think they were stoking the flames of a woman scorned. She was

(07:41):
So mad that she thought

(07:42):
That her lover sold her

(07:43):
Out, that she just

(07:45):
Blurted all this

(07:46):
Stuff out and

(07:47):
She blurted out the

(07:48):
Snapchat. She

(07:48):
Blurted out the fact that they were planning this in Korea, that they wanted to do it off the base. She

(07:53):
Gave a

(07:53):
Lot of information

Rachel Stockman (07:55):
Because she thought her lover was ratting out her. Correct. That's what the police had told her. But in reality, that had not happened. But that's a common Technique.

Norman Williams (08:03):
 That's a common tactic

Rachel Stockman (08:04):
That she would know this.

Norman Williams (08:06):
Everybody should know that that's a tactic.

Rachel Stockman (08:07):
Anyone that's watched Law and Order where they put the two people in a room

(08:11):
And

(08:11):
Lie to each other. Sorry to always bring it back to law and order. But I mean, come on here.

Norman Williams (08:15):
Or anybody that has more than one child, I mean that's That's What you do

Rachel Stockman (08:19):
 exactly to all

Katherine Smith (08:20):
The viewers. Never talk to the cops

(08:23):
Because

(08:24):
They also Can lie!...

Rachel Stockman (08:25):
coming from a defense attorney. I don't think everyone would agree with that. If you're innocent, you definitely don't have anything to add. There's no problem with talking to police officers. Katherine, it's been a pleasure having you here in studio with us. Norman, you're going to stick around. We have to take a quick break here on the Law and Crime Network, but we have a lot going on. We're covering three yes, three trials across the country. All fascinating trials. One of them is in Verdict Watch, so we're watching out for a verdict in that one. But we'll return in just a few minutes to give you a breakdown of the mall. Stay with us.