Brian Buckmire (00:03):
So we have breaking news out of Sweden with the ASAP Rocky case and Donald Trump or President Donald Trump is giving his tweets as to what's going on now. If you haven't been following this case, lemme give you a quick recap. asap Rocky was doing a show in Stockham Sweden, and in that time he was out and about with some of his entourage. He came across, or sorry, the accuser. Mr. Jafari had come across the group and said that he was looking for his friends. This caused an altercation between ASAP Rocky and his entourage where he was shoved away asap. Rocky had posted a number of videos on his Instagram, especially after TMZ had posted it as well of this individual following him and his group. Later on, a confrontation occurred where ASAP Rocky is shown on video tossing the accuser and three of his entourage jumping up and fighting him.

(00:55):
Now, the case had happened this week. They have just come to a conclusion after closing arguments ASAP as well as the accuser had testified, and the defense is going with self-defense saying that this person stalked and followed him. He has a record for drug abuse in the past, and ASAP said that this person had confronted him as if he was high or drunk, and based on his past at being held at knife point as well as being robbed, he thought that anything could happen. Now you're seeing clips here because the media was not allowed to be in the room. This was a four panel courtroom where a jury's not deciding, but four judges are. Instead now, right now, the judges have said they will come back with a verdict on August 14th, and until then, ASAP Rocky, along with his co-defendants are allowed to leave the country if they want.

(01:46):
Now, president Donald Trump, as I said, tweeted that there's a bit of a play on words that ASAP had a bit of a rocky weekend and told him to get back home asap. Now, ASAP obviously doesn't stand for as soon as possible, but I'm assuming that he will be back stateside and will be returning in Sweden for the 14th. I'm joined here, both my guests, I believe we've all pretty much seen the video. We've heard some of the allegations first to you, kitty, as we're looking at, I mean, it's not a murder case, it's not the biggest case of the century that we've seen, but with President Trump jumping in and the celebrity status around this case, we're being able to watch it from the video, the testimony, the allegations, the background, everything that we're skiing. I know we don't practice in Sweden, but how is this looking for asap?

Katherine Smith (02:35):
I mean, from an American perspective, knowing what I know here, I mean, it seems like he's a really good case for self-defense. He's got a lot of witnesses. He has a lot of evidence. There's been a lot of testimony in support of him. It seems like his accuser has a colored pass to some extent. It sounds like it's really good for him. I just don't know how the Swedish system plays out, but hopefully it'll bring him justice.

Brian Buckmire (02:56):
Yeah, it's going to be interesting. As I said, there are four different judges, and the way it works is three of the four judges come to a verdict. That's it. If it's 50 50, the prosecution gets to ask for a retrial. Now, Joseph, you've looked at some of the video as well, and I believe there's some injuries that seem to be pretty serious. Now, the accuser is saying that a bottle was used, which would heighten this to a whole nother level of prosecution. From my understanding, there are two things. One, the maximum penalty for this charge is only two years, but I believe the prosecution has come on the record saying we're only looking for six, six months. Sorry. And so as we're looking at the facts and kind of the ceiling that the prosecution's already set up, I mean, I think to Katie's point, this is a strong argument for self-defense here. But if he goes down, I mean, that's a few months in Swedish jail.

Joseph Tully (03:44):
It is, although he has credit for time served. But let's look at the big picture. You're in front of four judges. You're pleading your case for self-defense, and they let your client go out of custody and go home while they put together the verdict. That's a pretty good sign. I'd be very happy in that instance.

Brian Buckmire (04:01):
Yeah, I mean, for the most part, I think where all of us practice where someone is facing charges, and I know again, these are not as severe as the cases we typically follow after the verdict. The person usually stays in it. If you recall asap, Rocky's been incarcerated since, I believe about early July. They kept him in pending the investigation. They kept him in during the trial. Some of the sketches you saw there, he's wearing a green outfit that's not his, that's the Swedish equivalent of an orange jumpsuit. And I think he was only wearing a suit for the final court date. I think this is a sketch from the final court date where he was wearing a suit. So I think to Joseph's point, the fact that he's released Katie, he gets to go home. And right now, I think with Sweden, if you're thinking about it, if the president is in full support of ASAP rocking and he's allowed to go home, I don't think President Trump is going say, Hey, he has to be extradited. If he's found guilty, I think Joseph's correct. This might just be a slap on the wrist and no jail time.

Katherine Smith (04:58):
I think it's a strong indication of how the bench is feeling, right? I think if they really were leaning towards conviction or if there wasn't enough time for them to say time served, they wouldn't have let him go home Trump support or not.

Brian Buckmire (05:10):
Yeah, it is going to be interesting. And I know that in other areas we said that, Hey, maybe the involvement of the president might've heard because I know there's this theory out there, and don't get me wrong, when the president advocates for a citizen on foreign soil, I think that is tantamount to that person's job. That is great. But the question becomes now, Joseph, because we've seen kind of the back and forth between the Swedish Prime Minister and President Donald Trump to saying, Hey, our justice system is going to do its job. Do you stay out of it? Do you think that his involvement could have helped or hurt ASAP in any kind of way?

Joseph Tully (05:51):
To whatever degree, there's negative sentiment against Trump in Sweden. If the judges take offense to his meddling, then I think it could hurt. If the Swedish judges are saying, Hey, who's this Trump guy? He's trying to tell us what to do. Let's show him that we have our own power, then it would hurt. But we don't know how the Swedish court is sinking. It might just have no impact at all.

Brian Buckmire (06:14):
And again, when we're looking at this case, so the maximum sentence is jail time, two years, but there's no minimum. So when you have a case like this, Katie, when there's no minimum, so the minimum could be he could be found guilty and they could say, Hey, you know what? You sat in jail for about three and a half weeks time served. Is that still a victory at the end of the day?

Katherine Smith (06:37):
I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, it's a victory to the extent you don't have to go back, but I think that anything short of an acquittal for him would not feel like a legitimate victory. But obviously, again, the punishment is the worst part, and if you've already been sitting in jail and you don't have to do anymore time, it's partial victory.

Brian Buckmire (06:54):
Yeah, and again, I don't know, Joseph, please correct me, haram, Katie. KI don't think any of us are experts in self-defense in Sweden.

Katherine Smith (07:02):
Definitely not.

Brian Buckmire (07:04):
But as we're looking at it, it begs the question that if someone is following you, and I think the excuse he gave is first, the initial interaction was that he was looking for his friend, and then it was about trying to get his headphones back, and there was something about him not knowing that who Asaps Rocky was or that he was famous, which to me boggles my mind.

(07:29):
I think it's one thing to say, I don't know this person's famous, but if I see someone who's walking around with an entourage, I'm going to guess there's someone important, and I'm going to do something I don't typically do and play a bit of the race card as well. It's Sweden. I know that when I travel abroad and I'm six foot four, and they're like, oh, in Asia or Europe, they'd be like, oh, you must be a basketball player. You must be this. You must be someone famous. And if two or three people are following me, they think that as well. So I can't imagine in a predominantly white country, you see a black guy who's being escorted by an entourage and nothing goes off in your mind that says, this person's famous. Why am I following them? I can't coincide that. Katie, that seems to not make sense to me.

Katherine Smith (08:16):
It makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't. It makes absolutely no sense. But here's the other thing too. I mean, famous or not, you're not supposed to be following and stalking people. I mean, it doesn't mean that any violence can be inflicted on you as a result, but it certainly chips away the credibility of this guy's story and also about how reasonable he was being,

Brian Buckmire (08:33):
And Joseph to the stalking. The stalking, as well as from my understanding, the defense attorney was able to drum up some negative history on the accuser that he does have a criminal record for drug use in the past, and where ASAP Rocky is saying, Hey, this person didn't look like they were in their right mind, and this person's following me. I mean, I don't know a single person alive who would say, Hey, if someone looks like they're intoxicated on some sort of drugs and they're following me for blocks and blocks and blocks, and I'm telling 'em to leave them alone, that they do not feel threatened. I think that anyone in the world, Sweden, America, South Africa, New Zealand, they're going to say, Hey, I think I need to defend myself at some point.

Joseph Tully (09:14):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't just his entourage. It was his bodyguards and his bodyguards were big people, which again, would give a normal, reasonable person a clue that, Hey, there's something special about this person. They're being surrounded by really big, strong looking people, obviously bodyguards, and there was interaction between the accuser and the bodyguard. I think if you watch the video, and if you were to ask yourself, would I go up to however big the guy is, six foot 4, 350 pounds, would I go up and get in his face and push him and try to hit him with headphones? The answer would be no to a reasonable person. So the fact that the accuser did this, I think benefits a defense of self-defense.

Brian Buckmire (09:58):
I would say absolutely. No, I've been accused of being unreasonable, Joseph, but I'm 6 4 2 15. If I see a guy even 40 pounds heavier than me, and I'm like, no, I need this space for the show. I'm not trying to get it messed up, and I'm looking at pictures of this guy, he's tiny. He's got to be maybe like a buck 20 soaking wet, trying to attack these larger guys. I kind of believe ASAP when I'm saying, this guy's got to be on something that doesn't make sense. Katie, do you go picking on guys my size thinking this is going to make sense.

Katherine Smith (10:32):
 All time what I do every Saturday? I'm like, yes, let's go pick a fight. And that's part of the thing. Not only is this person maybe on something, but they clearly have a malevolent intent if they're doing this stuff over and over, just doesn't make any sense. I would be scared if I were rocky, and here's the part that I think is weird. How did it get this far? Why did the prosecution in Sweden decide to push this forward? I don't know what their threshold is for prosecuting cases, but from the snapshot, look at this. It just doesn't even pass the smell test to me.

Brian Buckmire (11:04):
Yeah, it doesn't. But they prosecuted. The evidence has come in. The judge has, or the judges, sorry. Now have the case, and we're going to find out the verdict on August 14th when ASAP Rocky and his co-defendants are supposed to be coming back. Hopefully they do come back and it's not an international incident for this case. We're going to continue with the knock case. We still have the verdict watch

(11:26):
And more after this break.